|
|
Post by Rogo on Feb 11, 2012 13:41:45 GMT -5
Hey guys as the majority of our members are women, I figured this would be a fun discussion to have. The representation of women in any media is pretty... uneven, but I have to be honest I feel that - especially in recent years - women have gotten a REALLY bad representation in anime. There ARE good, well written female characters in anime, but they are few and far between. Hell during the dark ages of the 'moe blob' era of anime (which seems to be dying off now), the representation of women was freaking awful, with them being those wussy cute things that needed protecting in some way. So, people of the forums, do you agree with me? Do you think that women get the short stick in anime a lot of the time, or do you think the problem isn't that bad? Do you like the fact that many female characters are given stereotypical characteristics over and over (Tsundere anyone?) rather than actual personalities? Do you feel character writing is just as bad for men and women? Discuss!  |
|
|
|
Post by Pumpkinhead on Feb 11, 2012 15:42:32 GMT -5
I used to watch (extra emphasis on used to)...Dragonball Z. Rather terrible show anyway, but something I didn't like even when I was into that crap was the portrayal of women. Chi Chi and Bulma were SUPER BITCHES. Always nagging and yelling at people, even for the most unreasonable things. The only female characters I liked (out of the very few that was in the cast anyway) was 18 and Videl, but 18 unfortunately wasn't given enough to do and Videl just became someone who had to be rescued. In Bulma's case she was bitchy AND had to be rescued.... Other than that and Pokemon...oh wait, Yu-Gi-Oh too. Aagh even more wasted hours of my life that I regret throwing away—even though you had to sit through ten episodes of DBZ to get any action, watching people hurl energy blasts at each other is still more entertaining than watching people play a card game. But ANYWAY...other than those I haven't really watched very much anime or read very much manga. But that's probably a large part of why. The impression I got was that both genders were portrayed really stereo-typically, but especially women. I'm not into shopping and make-up and talking about cute guys and things like that, so it's annoying when I pick up a story where every single woman seems to be obsessed with those kind of things and nothing else. This has been said already, but you, Rogo, are awesome for writing your women like they are real people I wish more male authors would figure that out too—that it's personality, not gender, that should define who someone is. |
|
|
|
Post by Feathers on Feb 12, 2012 14:31:50 GMT -5
As sad as this sounds, I am a teenage girl and have the worst time writing teenage girls, and women in general. XD I can sum up ALL my girl characters' traits/hobbies within this post.
Shopping
Going to the gym
Always looking for a partner
Shy
Slutty
Nit-picky (SP?)
I've come to the conclusion that outside of myself, people I know online, and a few close friends, girls around my area generally DO act like that. So I can see why guy(and even girl) writers would potray women like they do. Because most I know ARE actually like that. o.o Kind of strange, eh...?
|
|
|
|
Post by Pumpkinhead on Feb 12, 2012 16:01:26 GMT -5
I've come to the conclusion that outside of myself, people I know online, and a few close friends, girls around my area generally DO act like that. So I can see why guy(and even girl) writers would potray women like they do. Because most I know ARE actually like that. o.o Kind of strange, eh...? Yeah, I know what you mean :/ A lot of my female friends's idea of a fun time when we haven't seen each other in a while is like "I know, let's go to the mall and shop." "Yeah, that sounds like fun!" Me: "?" I think that's a result of media and society influence, though, rather than women having some "natural instinct" to shop for clothes or something. I think the media can have a very strong influence on how people think and act (and how they should think and act). So...as a result, there do seem to be a lot of women like that. But, then I feel like it becomes an endless cycle when because of that, fiction writers only show women who fall into these stereo-types...then that piece of fiction helps reinforce that idea even more. Then again, if you're writing a modern story (something set in high school, for example), neglecting to write any female characters who are like that as though they don't exist is unrealistic too, since they are out there. I think the main problem is when writers assume that an activity someone likes is what wholly defines their character and their values. Shopping=spoiled brat, or girl-who-likes-girly-things=weak girl who needs and wants a man to protect her. Or that, because there's a lot of women who are into fashion and romance, writers write all women like that as though it's because of their sex that they like those things rather than what they grew up on. |
|
|
|
Post by Rogo on Feb 12, 2012 17:05:40 GMT -5
Thing is a character having those traits you mentioned does not make them a bad or shallow character. Women do those things, men also do the stereotypical things. Women having stereotypical hobbies isn't necessarily a bad thing, what's bad is when their personalities are really poorly written.
For example, Remy from Black Lagoon is supposedly a strong woman but she is basically a man with a woman's body, written to be a 'bad ass' with little beyond that.
On the flip side we have characters like Aria from Aria the Scarlet Ammo who was written to be a badass, but also as a Tsundere who existed to be humiliated to make the hero look cooler by comparison. Also panty shots.
I don't think writing women doing 'women's things' is bad... it's when that's ALL the character is that the writing is bad.
|
|
|
|
Post by Pumpkinhead on Feb 12, 2012 22:00:15 GMT -5
Thing is a character having those traits you mentioned does not make them a bad or shallow character. Women do those things, men also do the stereotypical things. Women having stereotypical hobbies isn't necessarily a bad thing, what's bad is when their personalities are really poorly written. For example, Remy from Black Lagoon is supposedly a strong woman but she is basically a man with a woman's body, written to be a 'bad ass' with little beyond that. On the flip side we have characters like Aria from Aria the Scarlet Ammo who was written to be a badass, but also as a Tsundere who existed to be humiliated to make the hero look cooler by comparison. Also panty shots. I don't think writing women doing 'women's things' is bad... it's when that's ALL the character is that the writing is bad. I agree with you, I don't think doing 'women's things' means that they are bad or shallow either. What I meant is that often writers may have shallow women do those things, as though that personality trait automatically goes hand-in-hand with liking the activity, when that isn't necessarily true. (Nor do I think shopping is an inherently bad activity, even if I personally don't enjoy doing it) What I didn't think of before was that giving a poorly written personality to a character is the root of the problem, rather than giving her stereo-typical hobbies. You made a good point!  Your example about Remy especially stood out to me...because you're right, even women who aren't stereo-typical are still pointless and boring if the writer doesn't do a good job constructing their personalities. |
|
|
|
Post by Feathers on Feb 12, 2012 22:15:29 GMT -5
Hmm, after reading both of your points, I guess I'm not as bad as writing women as I think I am. XD Though my women characters do have those hobbies, it's usually for uncommon reasons. For example, I have a character that enjoys shopping because she's a mother and buys things for her children so she sees stores as places she can provide for her kids. So in a way, she shops to spoil her children, instead of the other way around. LOL It goes a bit more than that, but that as much as I can cover for now without overtaking the whole post. XD
On that subject, any of you know women in anime that have actually been written well? :O
|
|
|
|
Post by Pumpkinhead on Feb 12, 2012 22:26:56 GMT -5
Off the top of my head, no....but like I said, I really haven't watched very many anime shows. Ask Rogo! XD
|
|
|
|
Post by Feathers on Feb 12, 2012 22:32:40 GMT -5
LOL Poor Pumpkin(this is your nickname, rawr!). One I can think of is maybe Maka Albarn from Soul Eater. :O
Reason being is that while she is a tom boy, she is not merely a dude in a girl's body. She has her moments where I, myself, can see she is in fact a teenage girl. And while she does have some fanservice moments(more so in the manga), it doesn't make up her whole character. IDK, anybody else agree?
|
|
Devil
Rogue Mage
Devil
Posts: 119
|
Post by Devil on Feb 12, 2012 22:53:39 GMT -5
LOL Poor Pumpkin(this is your nickname, rawr!). One I can think of is maybe Maka Albarn from Soul Eater. :O ^ Agreed. |
|
|
|
Post by Pumpkinhead on Feb 12, 2012 22:54:49 GMT -5
Hm, maybe I'll check that out. Do you know if it's on Netflix streaming?
And lol Pumpkin? XD You know, come to think of it anyone can feel free to just call me that or Pumpkinhead if you want, I realize PumpkinheadKid is kind of a mouthful.
|
|
Devil
Rogue Mage
Devil
Posts: 119
|
Post by Devil on Feb 12, 2012 22:55:47 GMT -5
Why yes it is! The whole series is on netflix, english dubbed. ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by Pumpkinhead on Feb 12, 2012 23:05:41 GMT -5
Sweet! |
|
|
|
Post by Rogo on Feb 13, 2012 12:19:54 GMT -5
LOL Poor Pumpkin(this is your nickname, rawr!). One I can think of is maybe Maka Albarn from Soul Eater. :O Reason being is that while she is a tom boy, she is not merely a dude in a girl's body. She has her moments where I, myself, can see she is in fact a teenage girl. And while she does have some fanservice moments(more so in the manga), it doesn't make up her whole character. IDK, anybody else agree? I kind of agree Maka is well written, but honestly I have to point to my favourite manga for well written women - FullMetal Alchemist. All the women here are tough and strong in different ways but are written as characters first and women second. Probably because a woman wrote it. Red Garden, which I recently finished watching, had great female characters. Puella Magi Madoka Magica had pretty well written characters in it. I' sure I could think of more but off the top of my head I'm drawing a blank XD |
|
|
|
Post by Feathers on Feb 13, 2012 13:04:00 GMT -5
Agh, no matter how hard I try, I cannot get interested in FMA. I mean, I agree it's a great anime and manga, but I'm just not interested in it. With that being said, all the women in that manga are awesome. XD It might be because it was written by a girl, but I think the author also knew how to write well. My thinking in this is because all the male characters are basically written well.
In contrast, the author of Saiyuki is a girl, and yet there are hardly any women in her series. Can't say her female characters are done as well as FMA's, since most of them are minor characters, but she does a good job with the men. XD
I have not seen the other ones you mentioned though, Rogo. So I can't quite say whether I agree or not. XD
|
|
Your example about Remy especially stood out to me...because you're right, even women who aren't stereo-typical are still pointless and boring if the writer doesn't do a good job constructing their personalities. 
