When Good Guys Go Bad (SPOILERS)

[Rogo]

Okay from time to time something will pop up anime I'm watching that I have this urge to discuss and instead of spamming my Twitter with it, I thought I'd discuss it here.

If you haven't guessed by the title this post will contain spoilers, specifically for Guilty Crown and Future Diary - so leave if you don't want either show spoiled for you.

So basically for those who don't know and don't care about spoilers, both Guilty Crown and Future Diary have gone through something of a 'break the cutie' arc - a part of the story where the naive and innocent character is put through emotional hell, which in this case has resulted in both characters going - for lack of a better phrase - evil.

What I want to discuss here is how this sort of arc should and should not be done, and honestly these two shows serve as great examples.

Let's start with Future Diary, or How It Should Be Done:

First off, the main character Yukiteru has NEVER really been all that pure and innocent to begin with. He's a pretty selfish teenager whose incredibly naive and his weakness was his fear more than anything else. He was thrown into a game of death and had a psychotic girlfriend dumped on his lap, so of course he wasn't going to be strong at first. That being said, he still killed two people and tried to kill another before the recent events that broke him, though in those cases it was self defence.

So before the 'breaking' event, Yukiteru was constantly in fear of his life, trying to stop his psychotic girlfriend from killing anyone she saw as a threat (read: EVERYONE) and dealing with how weak he was. It's amazing the kid didn't break BEFORE this in all honesty, but when his parents died, he broke and became single minded in winning by slaughtering the competition.

Here's the catch, if Yukiteru wins then he will become god. He's aiming to use that power to resurrect his parents and in the latest episode - as he's gunning down orphans - he makes it clear he intends to do the same for everyone he's killing to get there.

So what we have is a character who was stressed as all hell before his breaking point, was already kind of self-serving before hand and even after his breaking point, has some kind of twisted reasoning for it.

Now let's compare this to Shu in Guilty Crown, or How not to do it

I took a while to describe Yukiteru's character before his breaking point but Shu is a little tougher to talk about - because there is NOTHING to discuss. He was a nice kid who was forced into fighting in a war. a little bit of a wuss but was good at rallying people and was generally speaking your average shonen hero. Think Shinji Ikari with more back bone.

Recent events have cut him and the rest of the school off from the rest of Tokyo and they are basically going to be 'purged' by the government because of an illness in the area. Up until three episodes ago the story was about Shu rising to become the leader of his high school and lead a great rebellion.

And then the writer's said 'LET'S MAKE HIM EBIL!!!'.

They decided the best way to do this was by having his love interest killed off and suddenly Shu is a tyrant, hated by all. His crimes include allowing sick people to die whilst doing all the hard work, with-holding important information and silencing those who oppose him with threats to their lives.

I re-iterate, before his girlfriend died, Shu was a nice, stereotypical shonen hero - where the HELL did this tyranny come from? Real human beings do not react like this and as a result, I'm not shocked to see Guilty Crown is being boo'd by the general fanbase right now.

So why are people happy with Yukiteru's heel-turn but not Shu's? Simply comes down to if your going to do this kind of character change, you have to build it up. It cannot come from absolutely no where, as is the case with Shu. Future Diary isn't perfect - far from it lately actually - but it was well-written enough that you can tell the writer had intended this for Yukiteru from the beginning - and even then we know it's probably not gonna stick.

Guilty Crown? It's obvious this was done for shock value to grab more viewers. The proof is in the pudding as if you watch the past two episodes we've had with 'evil Shu' it looks weird and awkward. Shu doesn't look right in the place of a tyrannical dictator, he's meant to be a wussy hero.

So can you guys think of more examples - both good or bad - of hereo's going evil?

[Feathers]

Here's another bad example. It comes from Elfen Lied. :3

Basically, the main character, Lucy(or the many other names she goes by), is bullied and picked on her whole life so she turns into a crazy beast that kills people using the power she was born with. While there is a bit of buildup here, the problem I have with it is that we don't get to see what Lucy was like while she was happy.

I mean, it's like the show is explaining all the horrible things that happened to her just to try and make you feel sorry for her. Now, as a disclaimer, I'll add that some poor souls do have it rough in life, however at some point when they were alive they WERE happy. The fact that Lucy is just given all these sad events in her life, never being happy for very long, just seems unrealistic. Which in turn makes me feel less for the character and whatever is happening with her. Plus, all her misfortune repeating over and over again can give some readers the impression that Lucy is always going to be unhappy and that there is absolutely nothing anyone can do. Talk about killing the hope right there.

The point of giving your character struggles is to watch them succeed or fail, and your readers will follow them the whole way because they either want the character to win or lose. This empathetic effect fails when you constantly throw horrible things at them though, your readers get bored with watching the same old emotional break downs. Then again, this all could stem from how I hate complainers, though I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who has noticed this. XD

But yeah, I think the point Okamoto wanted to make was that anyone different is horribly outcast from the "normal" crowd and we don't even think about its affects. It's sad because this is a theme that can be pretty powerful, but in Elfen Lied the conclusion I draw is...well nothing. It's too unrealistic for me to even connect it to my own life or feelings. Yeah, I feel bad for what happened, but I don't feel inspired to do anything about it or have that "light bulb" moment where I gain some insight about the world. All I feel is that it was a horrible end, and that's it. A sign of bad, manipulative writing if I ever saw one. :/

As for a good example, I'd have to say Death Note. I'm sure there are other out there, but right now I can't think of them. XD

So basically, the build up for Light starts out when he first picks up the Death Note, duh. However, from here we can get a good look at his character. He obviously can read/speak English and can be guessed to be a good student. Further on we find out he enjoys studying and getting good grades. His dream is to became a police investgator (now I might not have gotten this exactly right because I saw this awhile back), just like his dad because he has a sense of justice. Initially, he starts out as a really interesting character who simply wanted to rid the world of criminals.

However, a dark end was being foreshadowed as one of the rules in the Death Note was that the user is going to be slowly possessed by the notebook. With this in mind, we could only sit there and watch as the once pro-justice Light, turned into a killer that saw everyone as tools for his own beliefs and desires.

By the end of the series, you're torn. You really liked Light when he was good, but now he's a completely different person. All because of the Death Note. Half of you wants to see him punished, but the other half is hoping he'll somehow pull through and go back to being the normal teenager he should be.

It's this connection that readers should have with the characters when they turn bad. They shouldn't feel negative for thinking a character is evil because the character had a horrible past. More or less, they should feel conflicted as to whether they should accept the character the way they are now, or just hope they're killed off. And when you got this happening, you know you did a good job with the writing. :3

I am not sure if anyone else agrees, but if you don't feel free to let me know. I like debates. :D

[Rogo]

I agree with the Lucy thing... mostly because I freaking HATE Elfen Lied buuuut I'll explain in full detail why one day...

As for Light... ehhhh this is where I have to disagree because I never thought Light WAS a good guy. He's a very charming sociopath who has himself and the audience convinced he's a good guy.

Anyone declaring that he'll become god and admitting he'd kill his family if they got in the way very early on... has already fallen very far.

Better example is Lelouch from Code Geass.

Actually Lelouch is THE example of a person with good intentions going down a very, very bad path.

[Feathers]

Hmm, you got a point there. But the thing with Death Note is it sort of plays tricks on you when you first start out watching it. Viewers are used to the bad guys being the main character's rival and that they have to kill them(or something similar). Death offered an interesting flip on this, which made some viewers(like me) believe at first he was good. However, as time went by it turns out our first instinct was not so correct after all.

So it's this tradition of "protagonist = good" and "antagonist = bad" that sort of made people feel that he is a good guy. :/

I have not seen Code Geass since it appears to be just Death Note with mecha(which I don't like mecha anime to begin with...). So I'll just have to take your word on that. XD

[Rogo]

I REALLY recommend you check out Code Geass because calling it 'Death Note with mecha' is kind of not fair on it at all. XD

[Feathers]

I did try watching it. XD Only got up to like episode 9 before being like "Death Note with mecha...". I think it has to do with my inability to understand/become interested in mech anime though. Just not my type. XD

[Rogo]

I used to be the same but Code Geass, Gurren Lagaan and a few others changed my mindset on mech shows.

I recommend strongly if you like watching someone whose trying to be good go really, really off the deep end.

[Feathers]

Erm, well, Gurren Lagaan didn't make me like mech anymore than I do now. XD IDK I just feel like I can't empathize with the characters when they're in a giant robot. It kind of takes the comical form in my brain. (like the scene in Soul Eater where Lord Death uses Death City as a whole mech robot to control) XD I'm kind of messed up like that. XP

I might check it out if I got time and nothing to fill it with. But ATM I am addicted to Needless, so it might not be till I'm in Thailand/get back from Thailand.

[Rogo]

Well Gurren Lagaan is... really... strange but awesome.

Code Geass really does have a heavy political and fantasy focus as well as mechs tho.

Anyway this is severely off topic, can we get on track please? XD

[Feathers]

I blame you for getting off track. XD LOL

Anyway, this is sort of soaking up writing advice, but what do you(and anyone else who is reading this) think is a GOOD way to have a character go from cute and innocent to evil and downright terrifying? :O

[approvedjunk]

Could this also be like in Inuyasha with Kikyo? I mean, here there is, a girl set with the task of protecting the Jewel and in love with Inuyasha. Pretty harmless and the such. Then all of a sudden she's shooting and pinning him to a tree for an indefinite amount of time before dying herself. Then when she is revived all that they have her think of is revenge. Forget her being told multiple times that it was all Naraku's doing and they were both tricked. Forget the fact that she should just roll over and let herself be gone from a world that has moved on. It irritates me so much that she seems to be so thick headed that all she can think about is revenge, just as much as the whole "Inuyasha! Kagome!" back and forth.

[Rogo]

Um... not seen Inuyasha so can't say really, though that seems to fit somewhat XD

[Feathers]

I wouldn't say it would because she was tricked into "turning bad". The characters Rogo and I are talking about purposely went crazy/bad by their own free will(exculding some external stuff like a death or whatever). Plus, after Inuyasha gets revived she really isn't a bad guy. Kind of one of those characters that stays on the fence. Really isn't like the main antagonist or whatever. Now if Naraku somehow started out a sweet innocent guy and then was abused until he became the evil creature he is now, that is an example that would fit.

But I do thank you for pointing her out, because "on fence" characters also appear in a bit of anime. *goes to make topic* :D

[Rogo]

Hrm... that sound a bit like that girl from Fushugi Yugi actually.

Yeah this is more talking about characters who 'turn to the dark side' for lack of a better expression.

Sayaka from Madoka is a good example actually. She goes from being super optimistic and happy to... well watch the show.

[Feathers]

Sayaka sounds like an extreme example. It kind of makes me want to watch the anime now. LOL And I imagine asking for details would only cause spoilers, eh? XD

In speaking of that, ever see this type of event in anime happen WITHOU the use of a flashback or whatever?