Leaving Words Untranslated

[Rogo]

I'm pretty sure we've all encountered the 'translation note' in a fan sub where a word will be left in Japanese with a little note at the top of the screen saying what it means. This is sometimes necessary as some things just don't have a good translation to English.

Thing is - this practice has started to seep into dubbing and I wanted opinions on it - because I for one HATE it when the word 'moe' is tossed around in dubs without exaplanation.

What bugs me about it can be summed up in the usual otaku response to anyone criticising it - 'well we all know what it means'.

To which I say 'DUBS AREN'T FOR OTAKU!!!'. They aren't, they're for a general audience and as such leaving in words that only otaku understand is just alienating a new audience.

How do you guys feel about this? Do you think it's better to leave the word than rewrite the dialogue to get across the same meaning, or do you think that all words should be translated in some way in order not to alienate potential new viewers?

[Feathers]

As a speaker of Japanese, I HATE this. x-x When speaking in subs, half of the words or phrases they claim to have a complex translation really could be summerized in like two words. Then again, I'm not a big fan of subs to begin with so I might be a bit biased on that. XD

I have not noticed any otaku slang slipping into dubs, yet. The only one I can think of was rather minor. It was from Nabari no Ou. Even in the English dub they kept the title in the same format and just romaji-fied it. Literally, Nabari no Ou translates to "King of the Hidden" though with the plot in mind it could also be "King of the Hidden World". But that was just a mess with the title.

In dub dialogue, I can't really say I've noticed. Though this could be a result of my second language abilities. XD

[Rogo]

A good example is I just watched Welcome to the NHK and the words hikikamori and moe were used - fine there because it's a show about that culture, but Puella Magi Madoka Magica left it untranslated and DIDN'T explain what it meant.

She just said 'that's so moe' resulting half the audience going 'wait, what does that mean...'

[Devil]

I've seen the occasional "kun", "chan", and "san" in dubs, but that's about it. I don't get too mad about seeing it in dubs and such, since normally companies(Funimation, etc) don't do that. Titles are the same thing.

Maybe some companies think it's "cooler" or "better" to leave the original Japanese in, while sometimes they just can't match the lip movements without the Japanese.

But in anycase, yea, I'm not too much of a stickler for this sort of stuff. XD

[Rogo]

Actually Funimation have been known to let stuff slip - like sempai in Oruan High School Host Club.

My general rule for leaving stuff like honorifics goes like this;

"Are the characters Japanese? Yes? Then you can get away with it."

So Azumanga Daioh using Chiyo-chan or Ouran High School Host Club using Tamaki-sempai doesn't bug me.

But when I see fan subs with Armstrong called Edward 'Ed-kun' in FMA, that's the stuff that bugs the crap out of me.

[Devil]

LOL Yea, I agree with that.

[Rogo]

Also if I hear someone in a clunky dub or fan sub say 'even at a time like this' one more time I may eat my own liver. XD

[Feathers]

Now that I think about it, "even at a time like this" DOES pop up a lot. :O LOL Never noticed before now.

[Rogo]

What ticks me off about it is that phrase is so EASILY reworded to sound natural.

It's called two words 'not now!'

Need to match lip flaps? Fine go with 'what? No! No, not now!' or some other variation.

'Even at a time like this' is just... weird sounding.

[Feathers]

LOL True. I don't think I would ever say that naturally. Another equivenlant could be "This is so not the time."

[amyofdarkness]

How can you be complaining about untranslated words, even at a time like this! I'll never forgive you!

"I'll never forgive you" is the one dub translation I always can't help but chuckle at, especially when it's shouted out at an obviously unrepentant villain! Somehow I think other things may come to mind when the big bad is threatening to kill your loved ones... and somehow I think forgiveness is low on the list of priorities!

But yeah, having been out of the anime terms loop for a while, I'd be pretty confused by them dropping terms that I have no idea what they mean. It's obnoxious, like watching an old TV show where the jokes are all based on celebrities that are no longer relevant!

The purpose of translating these things for the English speaking audience is making sure we understand what the characters are saying. I agree, dubs aren't just for Otaku and it is unfair to sort of keep people out of the loop!

Do you suppose it's too often laziness? Sometimes the nature of conversations have to be changed for localizations, because sometimes Japanese puns don't work in English. Some gag series simply don't work because even though they're speaking in English the things they are saying are still foreign! I know some purists get worked up about the translation changing the context too much, but sometimes insults related to selling fish leave us confused.

[Rogo]

I think laziness is a huge part of it as well, as some anime dubs that have left terms untranslated also tend to avoid rewriting dialogue to sound less awkward.

'I'll never forgive you' isn't one that bugs me too much but yeah they could change that to something less awkward sounding.

[Feathers]

For leaving Japanese idioms and such untranslated, I have to say that it really depends on the setting of the anime. For example, if the slang "stop growing mushrooms in a corner" was used in let's say...Black Butler. That would not be quite too appropriote since the anime takes place in England. Now for something like Ouran High School Host Club, it would be just fine since that's sort of part of the culture. The viewer already knows it takes place in Japan and therefore there' bound to be some cultural differences. :3

[Rogo]

Well yeah but that's a completely different kettle of fish as it's a case where the visuals can't really be changed and as such, you have to leave it as is.

Also in Ouran that's fine cause it's already absurd so even if you don't get the mushroom growing, it's still funny and random.

[Feathers]

That's true for Ouran. XD They could probably talk about dogs eating strawberries and people would still not really care. Eh, I need better examples. LOL